Even better it would be easy for users to modify when they need to patch due to bugs in the release software, which is something I encounter on a daily basis. My initial impression of ROS back in 2009 was colored by the natural skepticism of any experienced open-source programmer towards any project that creates its own build system. Please start posting anonymously - your entry will be published after you log in or create a new account. > namespaces and separate build/install configs, On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 10:39 PM, William Woodall. A primitive package manager for ROS2 could look something like this: https://gist.github.com/lukicdarkoo/d Is there is any specific reason it is not done already? The class_loader package is a ROS-independent package for loading plugins during runtime and the foundation of the higher level ROS "pluginlib" library. to use Codespaces. I asked in that thread about improving support for version-dependent dependencies, but they basically said it's up to the folks doing packaging to deal with that and they didn't want to add complexity to Homebrew to simplify this task. I'll be honest, I haven't used these myself I've only read about them. Plus, this space is much different today when. For those using catkin, we hope to continue to support it so that they can transition to ament when/if they think it appropriate (Brian and Morgan have been working on this recently, hopefully they'll have something to share about it soon). When considering the above, perhaps it will make sense why my first instinct was suggesting the mechanisms in brew to streamline this process. Therefore it is very common for them to be reiterated in CMake. It would also support the current release cadence versioning, and long term support ROS desires extremely well. These things are doable, but the main thing is is that we don't want to be maintaining the core OS and all it's dependencies in addition to the ROS distribution. We do this by having the low level meta information available and tools that can leverage that and build on each other. I'll explain below. Nodes communicate with each other using messages passing via logical channels called topics. Much like the middleware, couldn't package management be handled by existing tools made elsewhere in the same manner as the choice of DDS? And what benefit is colcon build adding here, can't I just build the package using make? Eventually a patch to the dependency gets added upstream. His message all by itself is a good step towards a solid Rationale section for the ament design document.. As evidence, let's start with a "recipe" by taking a look at the start of the opencv install ruby script: - has a list of specific dependencies, hashed to an exact version, tarball, etc. The "problem" with this approach is scalability. See http://www.ros.org/wiki/Packages for more details. Yes, this sounds like exactly the right idea! Pretty much all colcon is doing for you is figuring out the dependency graph and invoke the necessary commands to build each package based on the build system it uses (while also leveraging parallelism where possible to speed up the process). Here is an example workflow how to create a workspace to test the availability: :: activate the ROS environment c:\opt\ros\melodic\x64\setup.bat :: create a empty workspace mkdir c:\catkin_ws\src cd c:\catkin_ws :: generate the released package sources list and its ROS dependencies :: you can customize the command line to checkout the sources . For example, consider the known forks of `conman`: "Publishing" a fork to rosindex just requires a PR to the `rosforks` repo above, then on the next index generation, it will be included: This could be turned into a dynamic website instead of a static one, modulo the resources required to develop and maintain it. I'm currently trying to understand the build system used by ROS2 and one thing I can't wrap my head around is the dependency management. The goal of these packages it to provide this useful functionality in an easy-to-consume manner . Specifically, Recipes (ruby install scripts) are pinned to exact tarball hashes, binaries, github tags or other files at the user's option all precisely defined in a git repository. With rosinstall_generator, vcstool, colcon and rosdep one can build its own package manager for ROS2. We take advantage of the great work of the maintainers in the Debian and Ubuntu communities and use their releases as stable bases upon which to build our ROS packages. It would also prevent. Packages are a very central concept to how files in ROS are organized, so there are quite a few tools in ROS that help you manage them. That is the one crucial detail that is critical to ROS, it is trivial to change the packages you're building against and set up your own package set. The other thing that is a deal breaker for me is a lack of support for Windows. Buck seems the closest but I can definitely see why they may not work as-is. It provides services for monitoring and runtime management of the so modeled system hierarchy in a self-similar approach with the standard lifecycle services. Fortunately, most languages have good existing options ros2 could integrate with and provide corresponding examples of how to use it with ros2. But in reality there are often mismatches between rosdep key names (the ones in the package.xml file) and the CMake config name. At ROSCon last October, Mark Shuttleworth proposed "snap" as a secure, cross-platform packaging designed for the Internet of Things. my_robot_msgs. my_robot_description. A tag already exists with the provided branch name. You mean in rosdistro? terminal outputs appear after KeyboardInterrupt, [ROS2] Start rosbag2 recording from launch file, Affix a joint when in contact with floor (humanoid feet in ROS2), Cannot build ROS2 humble (rclcpp) with Android NDK, ros2 transient_local durability (late joiners policy) does not work when using ros2 topic echo, [ROS2] CLI Parameter remapping for launch file, micro_ros_setup No definition of [python3-vcstool] for OS [osx]. ~/catkin_ws/devel/setup.bash package dependencies First-order dependencies When using catkin_create_pkg earlier, a few package dependencies were provided. Following this tutorial, dependencies are added using tags in package.xml. And how do you upgrade a specific package? Many Git commands accept both tag and branch names, so creating this branch may cause unexpected behavior. Of course these packages could be released into pip. Particularly with the recent release of Ubuntu for Windows, *brew could be a powerful tool! Also consider that many of our existing packages are written in CMake and many of our users are used to using it. really all you need is an extension to rosindex which generates / update your vcstool YAML file, and a script to consume it and clone all the necessary repos. There are a lot of package management tools out there and they have evolved and grown. I'm not intimate with the capabilities of debian packaging. 1 2022-10-10: rmf_task_ros2: A package managing the dispatching of tasks in RMF system. I've experimented with bazel more than the others, but all of these, in my opinion, don't address the federated model we have in ROS completely. If you look at ament_cmake, it is basically just convenience macros, which you can choose to use or not, just like any other CMake "library". However, it seems you have good reasons to stick to the native package manager on each platform. ROS is actually a set of software libraries and tools made to ease the development of robotic applications. I'd also argue that ament is basically "a federated setup (perhaps modifying existing tools when/if necessary)" as you put it. Ultimately, couldn't either one of the full stack build tools, or a federated setup (perhaps modifying existing tools when/if necessary) be sufficient compared to a ros specific toolset? There is another class of packages in ROS called metapackages that are specialized packages that only contain a package.xml manifest. The current build/package system that ROS uses provides: > smaller user base. Thanks, I'm just trying to understand the perspective from which your post was written! Is there a streamlined way for federated binaries in what currently exists? Please start posting anonymously - your entry will be published after you log in or create a new account. But I see your point. tldr: homebrew isn't made for stable software releases like LTS, so it's not a direct replacement for debian. It's harder, though, to put version constraints on dependencies (for example requiring an older version of boost). We intend to rely heavily on newer CMake features. The goal of a ROS package is to be large enough to provide a specific useful functionality, but not so large and complicated that nobody wants to reuse it for their own project. But for building the code, cmake's find_package() is used? I've started the ball rolling and the homebrew people are at least thinking about some of these issues, and they are planning to address at least some aspects. But for building the code, cmake's find_package() is used? In fact our own Dirk Thomas and Jose Luis Rivero were some of the main actors involved in getting something better than cmake 3.2 into Xenial after the code freeze: It involved us spinning up builds of several hundred ubuntu packages on our. These essential cookies may also be used for improvements, site monitoring and security. Can Ament do anything to make life easier in this situation? If bullet is already installed, however, it won't check whether it has the desired configuration, it will just use it. Of course, there is apt, but with ROS' package manager, one could install packages on unsupported operating systems. To support the ongoing work of this site, we display non-personalized Google ads in EEA countries which are targeted using contextual information only on the page. The goal of these packages it to provide this useful functionality in an easy-to-consume manner so that software can be easily reused. eProsima Fast DDS implements . Everything revolves around the git repo, taps and recipes, and it is super easy to create your own. ), flags to customize the build configuration, integration with many manylanguages (i.e. Job in Kennesaw - Cobb County - GA Georgia - USA , 30144. And support building from source on almost any platform. Andrew, the example you gave is definitely something that happens all the time, but it seems like this use case has more to do with the management of forks of repos than it does with the distribution of "official" releases. Even so, I believe none of these shortcomings is insurmountable, some are trivial, and some look like they'll actively be addressed. By comparison we're moving towards a set of build, install, and test conventions in ament, such that you don't even need cmake specifically. Unlike web served applications, or desktop applications, our robots tend not to have this many resources lying around. Using that example, if you install gazebo and bullet is not installed, it will install bullet with the requested options. Can forking ROS, modifying, then sharing be made a first class citizen by design and very easy for users to do? However as a generic deployment mechanism when we start building up the community based stack I think we want to stick to the native packages managers on most platforms. For me, Homebrew + Linuxbrew doesn't cover enough platforms for us (notably lacking Windows support). Specifically the following would need resolution: However, these are all issues which are all very practical to resolve with some development, although the windows issue probably outclasses the others in scale. I look forward to more nuanced discussions and proposals as we converge on a common understanding of the current state of things. Does ROS2 ship with a package manager that allows installation of package from remote source? Of course this isn't the whole solution because the build tools matter. You can either fork the whole repository and modify one or two lines to change the version, or you can create your own ruby script that binds to a specific version. We support plain cmake packages, for example we build FastRTPS and FastCDR without modifications in our build process. In CMake you need to find other packages. . You do not have permission to delete messages in this group, Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message. Don't get me wrong, I love homebrew very much. Related I believe (although for ROS 1, but the same/similar infrastructure is used): #q217475 and #q215059. If nothing happens, download Xcode and try again. So diverting away from CMake has some significant cognitive cost for our community. sign in Work fast with our official CLI. Of course, there is apt, but with ROS' package manager, one could install packages on unsupported operating systems. It also would help that many of you are already familiar with homebrew when compared to any other pre-existing tool not currently used by ROS. Use vcstool to pull a new code and rebuild it with colcon (maybe also re-run rosinstall_generator and rosdep). Learn more. Hopefully the following questions illustrate what I'm missing: Does Ubuntu currently manage all your debian packaging of ROS releases for you from top to bottom? my_robot_bringup. And that requires you to build from source for every package on every deployment which can take a long time for a large installation. Contribute to zma69650/ros_program development by creating an account on GitHub. 26 Ros jobs available in Kennesaw, GA on Indeed.com. (2) may or may not be added upstream right away so I create a temporary fork/branch with a fix. Job specializations: Warehouse. My conclusion is that none of them meet our goals (whether it be Windows support or allowing for integration with other build systems or supporting portable federated deployment). You may choose to opt-out of ad cookies, To be informed of or opt-out of these cookies, please see our. Standalone CMake (which has improved a lot now around 3.5 with namespaces and separate build/install configs, cpack. I don't think that's the place for this, since it's meant specifically for distributions. Apply to Software Engineer, Solution Specialist, Research Scientist and more! I believe we've come to these decisions after well informed consideration, but that doesn't mean there aren't places we could throw away something custom and reuse an existing tool. Then you could just share a list of your variants, pipe it into a program, and get all of the code you need to run that variant. If nothing happens, download GitHub Desktop and try again. How do I install it? (Qmake was a well-known and annoying example at the time.) So ROS uses existing package managers rather than inviting its own. my_robot_control (optional) and any other package that may be relevant to your robot and your robotics application. This commit does not belong to any branch on this repository, and may belong to a fork outside of the repository. Steven, thank you for your reply. At the end of the day, if the community cares about these features, the community needs to step up and support them. - provides extremely easy to use configuration options if you need something other than the default. Specifically, packaging! rosinstall_generator generates .repo with the branch names, maybe one could specify hashes instead. Second, what's the prefered way to install dependencies? You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "ROS SIG NG ROS" group. However, hearing how important the federated model is really made a light bulb go off and it isn't any of these options. First, if you want to build multiple packages you need to manually determine in which order you need to build them. Dependency management in ROS2: CMakeLists.txt, package.xml, colcon build, make ? Are there any quality resources you can recommend? But I'd argue that the transition from catkin to ament would be much easier than a transition to a completely new system like SCons or bazel. ", then I think we can have a more productive discussion. If you can point to a part of the system and ask "why didn't you use X instead? In general, ROS packages follow a "Goldilocks" principle: enough functionality to be useful, but not too much that the package is heavyweight and difficult to use from other software. 1. . It was only after several months using ROS that I came to understand how much the build system enables our federated development goals. Introduction to ROS and Its Package Management This is an introductory chapter that gives you an understanding of the core underlying concepts of ROS and how to work with ROS packages. my_robot_driver. Transportation. installing and setting them up). Please use the form below to find jobs currently listed: (Enter less keywords for more results. Robot Optimization, Scheduling, Task Execution and Routing (Ro.O.S.T.E.R.) How do you check versions and make sure it's reproducible on two different machines? repeat step (5) and (6) to go back to depending on upstream version, but things still need to be manually compiled until a new ROS release updates the dependency, which is often quite a while. Any chance you might have a moment for my questions from April 17 below? Installing pkgs using apt is much more of a hardened process. Can rosdep do the job or do I have to run sudo apt-get install ros-eloquent-camera-info-manager and cross my fingers that all packages I need are in the dpkg source? Additionally, deb files don't help me much on OS X. :-) It would be amazing to have one system that can work on all platforms. rosinstall_generator is a tool which helps you to get the source of all recursive dependencies so that you can build them from source. And as much as I hate Windows development sometimes (ok most of the time), it's something that has been requested of us again and again in ROS, and I think it's important that at least the core works and in order for that to be the case we need a build system that works on Windows too. Plus, since it is open source it can be improved. I'm running into some confusion between this reply and how things work with ROS. According to its package.xml file it requires - among others - the package camera_info_manager. ROS packages promote software reuse. For example, switching to your specific fully versioned clone is as easy as: Or, if you want to just install a single specific file without any other changes: Using this system, ROS could provide a full top to bottom package stack that is known to be stable and make it very consistent across many OSes! CMake + an existingconveniencetool such as: formula updates breaking their dependencies when bleeding edge changes are made, minor holes in assumptions when the available underlying OS/apt-get packages change, remapping of dependency paths without code modification is needed for ROS, support building/installing in a debug configuration. Could ROS resolve this by cloning its own "LTS" branch of the necessary taps (or their own super tap) into a ROS managed repo for each release and freeze things that way? choosing an existing tool could substantially reduce the need for such work during ros2 development and into the future. I just haven't seen any concrete suggestions from our community on that point, but I'd be excited to get some suggestions. We could fork the entire system however to do so would incur the cost of maintaining every dependency. So thanks for getting the ball rolling on that point. Comparatively OSX support based on homebrew is only known to work at a given point in time when tested. 7. repeat step (5) and (6) to go back to depending on upstream version, but things still need to be manually compiled until a new ROS release updates the dependency, which is often quite a while. Also we want people to be able to use our stuff within Visual Studio, which seems unlikely to be an option with bash on Windows. Warehouse Package Handler. They tend to be designed to accommodate a centralized, large repository with modular internal structure, and require everything to be written in or wrapped up in bazel (or the tool of choice). A package might contain ROS nodes, a ROS-independent library, a dataset, configuration files, a third-party piece of software, or anything else that logically constitutes a useful module. First a brief aside, I'm very pleased with the decision to use an existing middleware solution. In addition, too many users have development environments which are not clean or sane, leading to all sorts of problems. E.g. Here are some possible options for various languages: I add code that uses some functionality in a widely used ROS dependency like (pcl or OpenCV, for example) that I haven't used before. A package might contain ROS nodes, a ROS-independent library, a dataset, configuration files, a third-party piece of software, or anything else that logically constitutes a useful module. A package containing messages used by the RMF traffic management system. I don't think that would be overly complex. You signed in with another tab or window. It turns out there is a bug in said call, I submit a patch or bug report on github. Soproblems of building aside, you'd also not want to do this too much as every 'updated' library you load with your snap will invariably be already loaded in duplicate by other nodes on your system. sorry, this was supposed to be repeat steps (4) and (5). We are working hard to keep the dependency tree smaller for ROS2 as can be seen by our small mostly self contained binary installations for our Alphas. Now, let's say you aren't happy with the version provided there and you want to use your own. On Saturday, April 16, 2016 at 4:38:58 AM UTC+2, Andrew Hundt wrote: Like Austin, i regard those as still too experimental for public use (all 3). We have many pure Python packages in ROS 2, being built with ament, that only use setuptools. I've been looking into ros2 a little bit, and I was curious about a couple of things regarding building and managing packages. I know our justifications exist largely in our (the ROS 2 team's) heads, and that sucks, but thankfully discussions like this can force us to put them into words. Beside that you can always build dependencies from source if either binary packages aren't available on your platform or you want a different version. Any ROS package (which in ROS 2 could any build system like CMake, Python setuptools, etc.) This package contains the driver for the Intel Management Engine Components Installer. As @tfoote mentions, platform pkg managers have decades of development behind them, which especially covers all sorts of corner cases and tries to maintain transactional application of updates (at the package level, not across perhaps). However after that time when upstream moves a major dependency we don't know when or if it will break our software. I am not arguing that ROS' package manager supposed to replace the apt and similar but to complement them. We regularly get reports of software previously tested as working is no longer working due to changed dependencies. It lacks some of the rigor of other distribution systems like apt-get, especially in terms of controlling versions of packages you can install. Could you clarify? I love Homebrew, and I think it's a really nice tool, but I think they lean towards bleeding edge developers. > There is no support to invoke Bazel from Xcode (for example to re-generate generated sources such as Objective-C files based on protos), nor to open Xcode from Bazel directly. Software in ROS is organized in packages. This package also contains images of a turtle for display and files used to create the simulator. Are you sure you want to create this branch? I've experimented with bazel more than the others, but all of these, in my opinion, don't address the federated model we have in ROS completely. Overall, I don't see how Homebrew or Linuxbrew could replace our build tools, since they don't really address the developer user who builds lots of packages at the same time. We didn't use it, but we spent a day reviewing it. And how do you upgrade a specific package? The current build/package system that ROS uses provides: * Dependencies on system packages, automated installation of those packages, across different platforms (various flavors of linux, OSX, windows) * Dependency declaration and resolution between ROS packages * Generation of distro-specific binary packages (deb, rpm, arch) It is indeed very easy to set up your own homebrew tap to host your own custom packages. It would be quite easy to set up a homebrew-ros with branches and exactly the versions of the exact software that is desired to get started! ROS packages are organized as follows: launch folder: Contains launch files src folder: Contains the source code (C++, Python) Please allow me to elaborate and address a couple of the concerns. ROSIndex [3] does model forks of repos, and again, it wouldn't be hard to add a script to that website which generates a YAML file that vcstool can use to clone a bunch of packages into a workspace. How much would it take to add version parameters/constraints to homebrew? Why do I need both? I'd love to stop working on build tools and build systems and build conventions and just throw away our custom stuff and use something already out there. So yes, you can invoke just cmake && make && make install on a ROS package using CMake (even if it uses ament_cmake or in ROS 1 catkin). According to its package.xml file it requires - among others - the package camera_info_manager. This will get pretty detailed because it is important to understand their model. Does ROS2 ship with a package manager that allows installation of packages from remote source (like npm install or vcpkg install)? For my normal Python projects I use pyenv (for Python version management) and pipenv (for virtual environments and package management) and find this combination to work beautifully together. We have support for apt, gentoo, openembedded, chocolaty, conda, snaps, docker images, and soon rpms. Leveraging that, on any given day we always expect ROS to install on our supported platforms. On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 7:38 PM, Andrew Hundt. You should be able to use pure Python setuptools or bazel or whatever you want so long as it meets a few small requirements like being able to install to FHS layout and possibly others (I can't enumerate them all off-hand). https://github.com/schuhschuh/cmake-basis, http://design.ros2.org/articles/ament.html, https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/ros-sig-ng-ros/package/ros-sig-ng-ros/suTQfcddeh8/p3d90Ew8-ZkJ, https://github.com/catkin/catkin_tools/issues/266, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cmake/+bug/1534263, https://cmake.org/cmake/help/v3.5/module/CMakePackageConfigHelpers.html, https://github.com/Homebrew/homebrew-science/blob/master/opencv.rb, https://github.com/Itseez/opencv/archive/2.4.12.tar.gz, https://github.com/ahundt/homebrew-science, https://github.com/Homebrew/homebrew-science, raw.githubusercontent.com/ahundt/homebrew-science/vtk6/pcl.rb, https://github.com/caskroom/homebrew-cask, https://github.com/Homebrew/brew/issues/60, https://github.com/Linuxbrew/linuxbrew/issues/1075, https://github.com/Homebrew/brew/issues/62, https://github.com/Homebrew/legacy-homebrew/pull/42053, https://github.com/Homebrew/legacy-homebrew/issues/44654, https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/ros-sig-buildsystem/xCYO2EOgd0M, http://wiki.ros.org/catkin/Reviews/2012-08-01_API_Review, https://groups.google.com/d/msg/ros-sig-ng-ros/CmsCHhqdXgM/Ji0FU763JAAJ, github.com/username/homebrew-tap/boost155.rb, github.com/username/homebrew-tap/boost.rb, Brew, upon disc. Just pointing out that there are other tools out there isn't something I can weigh against what we're currently doing. It seems someone is trying to cross-compile ros2 which is another use case very relevant to this discussion: This seems to have died out while I've been traveling. The System Modes package leverages the ROS 2 node lifecycle and parameters to allow specifying operational states and modes over multiple ROS nodes hierarchically. ros packages management. There was a problem preparing your codespace, please try again. +1 for Will's excellent summary of the rationale for creating and maintaining a ROS build system. That job is no longer listed on this site. It does a nice job of keeping old versions installed side-by-side, but shy's away from complex versioned dependencies (which I think is understandable given their users and how the tool is used typically). The error recovery may be the hardest to implement. It would be very easy for ros to provide files like this in branches for long term support of specific versions in release distributions of ROS. On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 4:48 PM, Andrew Hundt. Packaging, General Labor, Warehouse Associate, Part Time Warehouse. Creative Commons Attribution Share Alike 3.0. And what benefit is colcon build adding here, can't I just build the package using make? When adding one dependency to your workspace it might require additional recursive dependencies. Is it a potential packaging option for ROS 2? The basic question is, what is the best way to deal with ROS and the underlying Python distribution and its package management. Really there's nothing in ROS or ROS2 preventing this functionality other than a convenient place in the community for users to put forks. It is true that they allow customizable builds (such as --double-precision for bullet), and you can declare these options in your dependencies (gazebo requests that double-precision option from bullet). As a quick resume, in your ROS stack you'll have this package organization: my_robot. We use and support plain CMake and Python's setuptools without modification or even a package.xml file. Again, I only really tried out bazel, but looking briefly are the others, they also don't seem to support Windows. Thoughts? So, a full rationale statement such as this remains quite important. If there are binary packages for the platform you are interested in (e.g. By comparison we're moving towards a set of build, install, and test conventions in ament, such that you don't even need cmake specifically. How do you recover from errors? I usually end up compiling most things from source anyway due to bugs I need to fix that can't wait for a future release or functionality I'd rather not reimplement that is available beyond the release versions. Additionally, how does the stability of debian versions help ROS releases on other platforms where ROS is used but debian is not? This is where "taps" come in. We typically do not just use pip though since apt-get packages cannot depend on pip packages. I suggest sending them feedback while the getting's hot! rosdistro [1] doesn't have the model to capture forks, but if it did, it would probably take a day to write a script that uses something like vcstool to all of the appropriate dependencies into a source workspace. These could all be supported by ament I think. . Seems like they are taking the web idea of sandboxing served applications with their own esoteric dependencies (think virtual machine/virtualenv/bitnami/docker) and applying the same principle to regular operating system apps which traditionally share their resources with other applications. These first-order dependencies can now be reviewed with the rospack tool. Ours just has a name, is modularized out of our other code so it's reusable, and could be used by others if they like it. Think of it as ros topics for packaging. In order to be able to automate packaging as well as determine inter-package dependencies those need to be declared in a machine readable format. DDS* (formerly Fast RTPS) is a C++ implementation of the DDS (Data Distribution Service) standard of the OMG (Object Management Group). To add the workspace to your ROS environment you need to source the generated setup file: $ . They tend to be designed to accommodate a centralized, large repository with modular internal structure, and require everything to be written in or wrapped up in bazel (or the tool of choice). Why not adapt homebrew to work for ROS and take advantage of the dozen developers already working on homebrew and 5000+ contributors, incorporating the experiences of all the ros build systems plus the experience of thousands of other developers? This could give you a means of providing a snap for a particular package/node that uses an updated api and dependency chain, but you'd need to make sure it uses the same versions of messages to communicate with the rest of the system. So I don't think it willussion, https://github.com/rosindex/rosforks/blob/de70fa1a9b138768c3dbfe3a6c43ac5ca5d74f35/repos/conman.yaml, tight focus on making it easy to create installers for your own package, possible to provide full top to bottom versioning of packages and dependencies (avoid cross-os differences! To start supporting what you're talking about. Homebrew doesn't currently have an LTS, which requires freezing software versions for a long time and managing version-dependent dependencies. > java, D, python, rust, lua (many more) > package managers that work well with their own language if. dependencies are added using tags in package.xml. +1 for Will's excellent summary of the rationale for creating and maintaining a ROS build system. As you mention, in some future case we might be able to use these on Windows, but having tried out their bash for Windows demos, my opinion is that it will be years before that's something we can rely on and will most likely have some serious limitations. Listed on 2022-12-04. For Windows Microsoft builds chocolatey packages which you can install with choco. I don't consider this a very elegant approach. Does anyone here have experience with snap they'd like to share? While my personal experience with OpenSplice has overall been negative due to the complexity of setup, bugs encountered, and lack of documentation, it may have improved since I was using itintimatelyin ~2011-2014. For example, there are cross platform and language build tools already available that scale to massive size: Alternately, adopting an existing package manager such as. For pure binary installs and applications there is another system of "casks" as well, though I won't go into that quite as much, here is the link: That said, there are a few specific outstanding functional components that would need to be fixed so it would work for ROS. Despite these experiences, it is great that ros2 isn't being started from scratch! I've found it makes fixes for users simpler because I can push a change to my forked formula + post a couple simple brew commands on the web and everyone is good to go. For source support, and unofficial variants, forks are already first-class on rosindex. There are many many corner cases in package managers. Or, delete the package and install it again. I'm sure this isn't a complete enumeration but it hits some of the big points. If the names of your build dependency names align perfectly with the names of the CMake config files you might be able to use convenience functions like ament_auto_find_build_dependencies. This includes: rospack: find and retrieve information about packages catkin_create_pkg: create a new package catkin_make: build a workspace of packages rosdep: install system dependencies of a package When considering the above, perhaps it will make sense why my first instinct was suggesting the mechanisms in brew to streamline this process. So ROS uses existing package managers rather than inviting its own. I also think some developers may see value in reducing the complexity of this process. There are a lot of package management tools out there and they have evolved and grown. Some users of my package aren't experienced enough to do this themselves, so they are simply stuck and out of luck unless I can give them step-by-step instructions. Listing for: FedEx Ground PH US. Second, if you want to build more than one package it will require a lot of manual labor. Depending on rosdep to install dependencies is possible, but it's not sufficiently robust, as many pkgs don't state their dependencies properly. The wiimote package allows ROS nodes to communicate with a Nintendo Wiimote and its related peripherals, including the Nunchuk, Motion Plus, and (experimentally) the Classic. Specifically: Why not go with something that matches one of your own best/proven models/designs in another area it can apply very well? I've also thought of another problem I've encountered. We will also go through the ROS concepts such as ROS master, nodes, parameter server, topic, message, service, and actionlib to refresh your memory of the . You have some good points there. The current state-of-the-art is to create a duplicate formula (such as boost155) typically hosted in homebrew/duplicates. We shouldn't want to replicate all of that. However, I neither see a system that already meets our goals nor a system that is willing to change their direction to meet our goals. The build-pkgs-from-source helper is a nice idea @lukicdarkoo, but tbh, I'd rather we avoid having people build packages from source as much as possible. Furthermore, these scripts are incredibly easy to understand, configure, and they run not only cmake but dozens of other build tools as well. That is why they are present in the manifest files package.xml. answered Feb 14 '11. Please That's a fair question. As an LTS gets older some of the tools I use must be updated, which means compiling and patching from source, sometimes supplying later versions of items in /usr/lib in /usr/local/lib, sometimes for bugfixes there isn't another way to avoid. I can no longer use the packaged release included in ROS, so an arduous process of manually compiling/installing said patch and all dependencies begins on every platform (I at least try to support Ubuntu + OS X) and physically installed machine I have. A package manager is not something that's specific to robotics, and consequently we shouldn't reinvent the wheel, but learn from the many decades of (more). Although ROS is not an operating system (OS) but a set of software frameworks for robot software development, it provides services designed for a heterogeneous computer cluster such as hardware abstraction, low-level device control, implementation of commonly used functionality, message-passing between processes, and package management. This gives you the same isolation benefits and the ability to concoct an app with esoteric dependencies. lukicdarkoo ( 2020-08-27 04:56:55 -0600) edit. Use Git or checkout with SVN using the web URL. It provides the services you would expect from an operating system, including hardware abstraction, low-level device control, implementation of commonly-used functionality, message-passing between processes, and package management. Which is more or less what you're able to do with a cmake package, except cmake can be reinvoked from within Xcode (same applies for QtCreator and Visual Studio). is a ROS (Robot Operating System) based open source project to develop a heterogeneous fleet management solution with task allocation, scheduling and autonomous navigation capabilities.This software has been developed as part of the work at the 'Center of Design for Advanced Manufacturing' lab of TU Delft on the . I just think it's not trying to do everything that debian does, so it's important to keep that in mind. ROS is designed to be a loosely coupled system where a process is called a node and every node should be responsible for one task. I think the people helped the most would be users who may simply lack the skills/experience to maintain their own versions of packages they depend on. Given that, we didn't feel that there was a good replacement that's come around since we developed rosbuild and catkin way back when. Just like with the on going work for ROS 1, we fully expect people to build software how ever they like and just use ROS 2 as a dependency. Each node can send or get data from the other node using the publish/subscribe model. How do I install it? - provides transparent download of binaries for specific operating systems when the default package works for you. You are right that Homebrew leans towards bleeding edge developers in the default packages they provide, however, their tool is specifically designed with the rigor you describe, they just happened to deliberately choose the bleeding edge rolling release model in their primary repository, but they make it trivial to set up a stable version locked repository. We didn't spend as much time researching alternatives for build systems as we did for middlewares, but we've been working on them for quite a while and we try to keep up to date on the latest trends. This discussion and the one above made some of the goals clearer to me and something specific really stood out in my mind. I'm not sure how, but is there any way .debs can even help with that? can be build using its native build tool. If not, why not? I participated in that homebrew discussion, and my takeaway is that homebrew is probably closest to debian unstable since it is always providing the most recent versions of software. Again, ament is more about automating the builds of multiple packages. I've tried to use Linuxbrew with limited success. This driver installs Intel Management Engine Interface, Serial Over LAN driver, Intel Management and Security Application Local Management Service, Intel Converged Security and Manageability Engine (CSME), Intel Management Engine Windows Management Instrumentation (WMI) provider, and Intel Capability . Ubuntu) you can install those. Full Time, Part Time position. There are many packages that are not published to apt, or there is no specific package version available, or the package is available for a new ROS distro even though it is compatible. We could support pretty much anything that provides an "install to FHS layout" target. So far their user-facing bits have not been optimized for the general public (steep learning curve, hard to debug, easy to shoot yourself in the foot). Take for example this package. It is true the homebrew guys won't manage a ROS release for you, but could you describe how that's different from what you do already? As for the ament_cmake stuff, it is really no different than any other CMake code that's embedded in pretty much every open source cmake project out there (have a look at opencv, pcl, gazebo, ogre, and similar projects). All the "ament cmake" packages can be built as a normal cmake package ("mkdir build; cd build; cmake ..; make"). I've had a little more time to mull this over, and I think I have a narrower but very common situation worth discussing and perhaps streamlining: Is this something any of you have encountered? All of them have non-trivial cmake code to accomplish some common tasks. I notice that Ubuntu 16.04 Xenial supports it. Structure ROS workspaces and packages with Git, Package running in 64 bit, not running in 32 bit, joystick ( joy ) package in ROS groovy [closed], Collvoid Package : ORCA algorithm not working, Catkin Workspace, exclude packages from building on specific platforms [closed], Problem in creating executable file for package [closed], Creative Commons Attribution Share Alike 3.0. for Ubuntu we create debs which you can install using apt. I think it would be less convenient to use, for example, Homebew and plain CMake rather than our tools if you're hacking on more than one package at a time. His message all by itself is a good step towards a solid Rationale section for the ament design document. Suggestions may be selected), Use of Browser Cookies: Functions on this site such as Search, Login, Registration Forms depend on the use of "Necessary Cookies". Their purpose is to reference one or more related packages, which are loosely grouped together. We have support for apt, gentoo, openembedded, chocolaty, conda, snaps, docker images . Basically you have to run bazel, and then open xcode on the result. Thanks again for taking my questions and ideas into consideration! It is very hard to guarantee the packages can be compiled smoothly on different operating systems. Software in ROS is organized in packages. I'll do my best to express why I think there's not a good existing solution for us to leverage in this part of the system (the build tools). 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