At 100dpi that gives you 8.3 meters of display. Commands, including shared memory setup and keyboard input, should be proxied through a client in the guivm and a stub compositor in the appvm. Sign up for a free GitHub account to open an issue and contact its maintainers and the community. Xlib and XCB are libraries implementing the client-side of the Xserver/X Windowing system display server protocol (speaking the X11 protocol). Firefox is particularly bad for this. Linux has had many vulnerabilities, but none in the mmap code, if I understand correctly. This process is the client side rendering aspect that we mentioned above. Wayland has the advantage of being visibly faster, to the point where you can see the mouse cursor and desktop effects working more smoothly. Normally it should run at the monitor's active refresh rate. X11 is the protocol implemented by X Windows System while Wayland is the protocol used by Wayland Compositor. Did anyone get a chance to try the following? It has released multiple improvements and currently posts these to this websitewhen they unveil new versions. Further research does show it is basically PV. Some examples of Linux distributions that support Wayland are: The alpha version of Wayland 1.19.0 was released January 27, 2021. Copyright 2012 KDE Community Forum Team. His own proxy (written in OCaml) is probably a better choice. Seems to me to be similar to virtualizing a CPU without SLAT. However, wl_shm::create_pool and wl_shm events should be . It's better now though a small difference is still perceptible between the two. to your account. It doesn't make sense that a credit card sized PC can run 64-bit Ubuntu this well. However, It still may make graphics acceleration with GPU passthrough easier, as there is no need to mess with X11 graphics extensions, only OpenGL/CL libraries. The simpler code that has been written for this protocol also gives it a performance edge over X11. Furthermore, it manages compositing itself. I'm on Ubuntu 22.04.1, all latest updates, Nvidia 1650 Q Max with 515 proprietary, and latest steam. 46 43 Godot continues making improvements to both its X11 and Wayland back-ends while this support on Linux to dynamically load X11 is important for the future Wayland-focused modern Linux desktop. ), which Qubes has explicitly architected around not trusting. Awesome. And I am interested in being a GSoC mentor for Qubes again. privacy statement. This thing is now officially a (secondary) desktop computer. Method. The text was updated successfully, but these errors were encountered: Not to rain on the wayland parade, but I'm not convinced the potential benefit over the current system is as large as you portray. As things stand, X11 is probably still the better choice, just from a compatibility perspective. But this could be still useful thing to do. The desktop is very smooth and there's no tearing anymore, on the other hand, Hey, look what I found, it also has the only game I install on all my computers, Is there a way to use X11 on ubuntu 21.04? It may be reduced to only controlling input focus. Your IP: Windows XP has 96dpi. Wayland functionality for Spectrum OS will be integrated into upstream Wayland, which might be interesting for Qubes OS: This video goes over what Wayland and Xorg do. This has slowed down adoption to a certain extent, but most popular Linux distributions have made it available as part of their environments. As of this beta the WebXR support for Godot 4 is now fully on par . Raspberry Pi 4B 4GB / Bullseye 64-bit Beta / Openbox / Thunar. Which means, between all of your displays you can only have 32,768 pixels. However, this means that applications that wish to support Wayland will need to be updated or rewritten entirely as a different version to support this new standard. Even just yesterday's OS X security advisory had 3 new CVEs for their intel graphics driver interface, allowing sandbox escapes & privilege escalation. specifically to map the composition buffers directly into X server, Sign in However, this is also one of the few games stuck to running in windowed mode due to issues introduced with recent updates to the game when benchmarking. Wayland's main advantage over X is that it starts from scratch. Well occasionally send you account related emails. Most of the hardware that supports Wayland is Intels open source driver or AMDs open source driver. Take what I advise as advice not the utopian holy grail, and it is gratis !! Already on GitHub? Probably the biggest one from the graphics side is that Wayland doesn't do any drawing. That is to say, the GuiVM is obviously necessarily in the TCB of any VM which it controls input to / sees output from. Wayland has two communication methods; Commands over a Unix socket, and shared memory buffers through a file descriptor with mmap. By clicking Sign up for GitHub, you agree to our terms of service and Wayland uses a simple, modern approach: client side rendering. X11 is very resilient to such things, part of the reason I can think is the age of the codebase. http://phd.mupuf.org/files/fosdem2013_drinext_drm2.pdf specifically references Qubes, so I would hope that security has been a legitimate consideration in the new API development. Forums / NoMachine Terminal Server Products / Virtual Desktop : Wayland vs. X11 - Gnome Classic vs. Gnome Standard. Wayland is widely viewed as the likely successor to the X11 Server on the modern Linux desktop with it being supported by multiple Linux distributions. But in the first version it probably will have full control. Touchpad gestures being one of them. You can. Wayland simplifies the graphics stack by trying to force everything through a GEM/DRM stack and straight into the kernel. By submitting this form you agree that you have read, understood, and are able to consent to our privacy policy. If the X11 sommelier instance crashes in this setup, it takes all running X11 programs down with it. X11 doesn't support RDP, it supports fake input and screen capture which RDP servers use though. It's shockingly snappy, but be sure to run it from an SSD or else you'll have a bad time! Thanks! A 97-page guide to every Cisco, Juniper, F5, and NetApp certification, and how they fit into your career. As a result, today, X11 acts largely as "a really terrible" communications protocol between the client and the window manager. However, wl_shm::create_pool and wl_shm events should be intercepted so that the stub compositor and guivm wayland client both create file descriptors in their VMs, and the guivm maps a foreign range (or asks dom0 to do so, I'm not sure quite how that would work) to link together the contents of those two memory ranges. All rights reserved.KDE Community Forums has no liability for any content or post. The GVT-g approach of "just try to arbitrate everything in software" strongly reminds one of Xen paravirtualization, which we've moved away from in R4 because it's proven too hard to get right and became a liability. I think we could still reduce RAM usage by sharing the same memory for the framebuffer in the client in the AppVM, the stub compositor in the AppVM, the stub client in the GuiVM, and the real compositor in the GuiVM. Since switching to a 144 Hz monitor, I visually noticed that desktop compositing still runs at 60 FPS in the X11 Plasma session (doesn't affect Wayland). Wayland also aims to be easier to integrate into Linux systems with more straight-forward code. I'll wait until it's ported to more DE's. Thanks! Have a question about this project? I had performance regression with Manjaro / Sway / Firefox 89 , https://github.com/manjaro-arm-community/sway-images, https://github.com/manjaro-arm-communit .04.img.xz, https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/sata sb-adapter, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuXsupMuik4, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+sour ug/1930982, https://github.com/mpv-player/mpv/wiki/ yz_problem, https://9to5linux.com/collaboras-waylan or-support. The performance of Gnome (w/ both Wayland and X11) is essentially very much the same (if anything I lose about 5-10fps but no big deal when I'm playing anywhere from 135-160fps). There isnt currently an official draft standard to make Wayland the standard, which means that it could still be some time before it becomes accepted as a mainstream alternative to X11. I understand this will be a long wait. The power usage, frame 'lateness' (difference between target display time and actual time), and CPU usage are shown, with Wayland providing a dramatic improvement in all these metrics. I have read and understood the privacy policy and am able to consent to it. There are several actions that could trigger this block including submitting a certain word or phrase, a SQL command or malformed data. One major advantage of Wayland is that Wayland subsurfaces can be mapped by the GUIVM and composited on the GPU. XFCE4, LXQt, i3-WM, WireGuard, Samba, Kodi, Latest MESA graphics drivers! I am starting work on forwarding Wayland between VMs. Wayland is cool but only supported by GNOME, KDE and sway. X11 for desktop Wayland for Laptop reasoning, everything I need to do works perfectly fine or even better on Wayland. That is to say, the GuiVM is obviously necessarily in the TCB of any VM which it controls input to / sees output from. My understanding is that that is just buffer management everything else is handled in hardware. What exactly would Wayland improve about this? This topic has 1 reply, 2 voices, and was last updated 2 years, 2 months ago by fisherman. It looks like NVIDIA and AMD also have some interesting (SR-IOV for AMD) isolation features for fancier GPUs, although those seem really really expensive and only easily available on certain servers. X11 has been in use for a very long time by computing standards, and it is reliable and stable. I'm really sorry for this happened. because I'm always using remote connection to use my pi, and with wayland the experience is really bad and I can't use V3D, only the software renderer. X server can do that too if you enable compositing in window manager I think KDE, GNOME, and Sway (i3 clone) support server-side decorations, so it shouldn't be too bad. As @jpouellet said, benefits may not be that large. Wayland rendering performance on X11? Just as X.org didn't have XRandr and Xcomposite and XRender from day one, so Wayland doesn't have some features from day one. Because Wayland is a protocol it takes quite a different approach to traditional X11 programmed applications, which also hampers its adoption. Wayland could make things easier here. Although this is not a security issue due to the guid security model, there are several advantages to using Wayland instead of X11: If allocations are on page boundaries, then we can use xc_map_foreign_rage (or the equivalent in the HAL) to map framebuffer pages directly from the client in the VM to the compositor in the guivm, Since framebuffers are mapped instead of copied, the proxy wayland compositor should use less memory than xorg (On a VM which currently has 800M of RAM and two windows, Xorg is using 1/6th of the physical memory). (I may also just be misunderstanding X Display Lists though). [NEW] Ubuntu - CM4/RPi4B custom image(s)! We can remove GVT-g from the picture: I thought it used newer isolation features since my laptop didn't support it, but I guess not. Wayland also aims to be easier to integrate into Linux systems with more straight-forward code. Fact is, X11 still shines to me as an end-user. However it has the disadvantage of being a lot more buggy and requiring . We can simply forward events for screen update to the client, although we have to deal with anonymity for anon-whonix, where position of multiple displays could be very revealing. Wayland has been in development for a long time, so it is quite possible that unexpected issues could delay it even further. Witness the smoothness and snappiness of Ubuntu, on a credit card sized computer with 4 GB of RAM. I refer you to https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/gui/#window-content-updates-implementation, Nevertheless, I will have to look into how much the GuiVM is trusted, IIUC it is ultimately trusted by necessity. However, that reminds me of another problem: Screen lockers, like the rest of the compositor, are all part of the same window manager process. For a complete list of X releases check out their website. The X11 machine runs the ChromeOS X11 driver, with a client which plays video through OpenGL ES at all times. I think KDE, GNOME, and Sway (i3 clone) support server-side decorations, so it shouldn't be too bad. X has no issue with this so I use that on the desktop. Wouldn't using wayland increase the security of xscreensaver too? IMO it's way too complex to be even worth considering from a security standpoint. shaders can be mutually isolated in different address spaces, enforced in hardware. This makes load times much quicker in theory and is technically easier to implement, thanks to the simplified codebase that Wayland brings to the table. Get great content delivered to your inbox. Yesterday it was crap, and ran like expected, today it's a new machine. Wayland handles the clipboard differently from X11, so some programs might not copy and paste as expected. This means Wayland will need to be adopted by the Linux Foundation and other organizations who can help with development, testing, and promoting its use before it becomes an official standard. Wayland was created by a project called the Wayland project. Another big change with Godot 4.0 Beta 8 is that the WebXR support is now fully working. So, from me, including GSoC 2018 (we will apply this year too). It may also be possible to do this in X11 with proper proxying of MIT-SHM, but I can't find any code doing it, and doing so may increase complexity significantly. This website is using a security service to protect itself from online attacks. X11 is primarily a display protocol, so it was designed to render graphics over the network. The current gui protocol/implementation already does have guests blit directly to a shared-memory framebuffer not requiring any copying between VMs. Wayland has also been designed with security in mind and is not vulnerable to the same types of attacks that X11 is, such as the Unauthenticated Access exploit, although this has been patched in later releases for the most part. Yeah, not the biggest fan of Gnome myself, due to how resource heavy it is on weaker hardware, and not really a fan of the design language, so I usually go for a minimal install with Openbox. Wayland relies on the display device EDID obtained via the KMS driver (as does Xorg). This is by far the best way to see what works best for your own specific needs. This is reliable, but it is very slow by modern standards, and when comparing it to newer systems, such as Wayland. Wayland is designed to be easier to use than X11. The protocol that Wayland uses also makes it easier for designers and developers alike to create cross-platform apps, which have always suffered from problems rendering on Linuxdue to compatibility issues between various versions of GTK or Qt. https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/platform2/+/HEAD/vm_tools/sommelier/. However, down the road it is desirable to move the window manager out of dom0 and remove its ability to control dom0 (and in certain use cases perhaps also remove its ability to control some other VMs managed by an external admin). As far as graphics acceleration, modern GPUs do have an MMU that can enforce page protection. Wayland is a display server protocol that is a FreeDesktop.org project with development being driven by multiple organizations. The first and most obvious reason why you would want to use Wayland instead of X11 is the reduced latency between opening an application and having it render on your desktop. I recommend against Sommelier. https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=423230. While obviously suboptimal, this approach works fantastically in one (very important, IMO) use case: gaming. Raspberry Pi 4 Ubuntu 21.04 testing Wayland VS X11 - YouTube 0:00 / 6:50 Raspberry Pi 4 Ubuntu 21.04 testing Wayland VS X11 19,073 views Apr 27, 2021 checking out ubuntu 21.04 on. Wayland has the advantage of being visibly faster, to the point where you can see the mouse cursor and desktop effects working more smoothly. I would be interested in working on this for Google Summer of Code if the Qubes project decides to join. Can XWayland be used as a transitional option, if shmoverride is applied to the Wayland compositor too? This should be much more efficient (both in CPU usage and power consumption) than CPU-side compositing by the X server, but requires caution to ensure that a client cannot draw outside of what Qubes OS considers the borders of its window. Gaming on X11 vs XWayland Yesterday I tried a SDL2 game (Salt and Sanctuary) on SwayWM XWayland then I installed I3-WM to try performance on native X11 and for my surprise, the game was running much better on XWayland. Long ago, a server would handle all the rendering requests and a rendering workstation would receive the graphics and windows that the server created. No one expects Wayland to already support everything it has to. Xorg and X11 protocol in general is quite complex and from time to time we hit some strange interactions between different toolkits and our GUI. Use Wayland instead of X11 to increase performance. There are also a lot of new features that you can experiment with, like GPU sharing or Wayland specific compositors to try out. Wayland vs X11 Battery Performance Hi, I am quite willing to try Wayland though it's still not too developed in terms of stability when compared to X11 but I came across some claims that since Wayland is newer the battery performance is better on Wayland than X11. Raspberry Pi and Android both support Wayland out of the box with no need for any additional drivers. However it has the disadvantage of being a lot more buggy and requiring several tweaks to prevent session crashes, as well as missing features such as no proper clipboard functionality. Add in higher resolutions AND multiple displays.and things get dicey REALLY quickly. (X11) might offer better performance. If for some reason that is invalid (or missing) then generating a custom edid.bin (with the desired display resolution) may be necessary. I haven't seen any technical write-ups yet, but I'm willing to bet there are still plenty more holes in that interface. Wayland adds clear separation of applications. Firefox is particularly bad for this. A little update on this: I found part of the reason why X11 wasn't as fast as Wayland for me. There are lots of differences between X and Wayland. It is written in C++ and Thomas Leonard found that it kept crashing for him. My question is, XWayland is more performatic than X11 for gaming or it's just a specific case? This means that we may have to make significant changes to each desktop environment. The clients applications need to communicate with the X11 server before the compositor (window manager) can generate the window that is needed for the application to render properly. The reference Wayland implementation is the Weston compositor. It is not an application or a downloadable program. It also makes tasks such as dragging windows, resizing them or switching them to full screen feel that much more smooth and modern. @blacklight447 Yes, screen lockers are harder to crash in Wayland. Too complex? Simply forwarding these commands to the guivm would be dangerous, so we would need to process within the Xorg server then send the displaylist sometime before the end of processing and rendering. The memory use was looking at the freshly booted system's memory usage from Fedora 27 Workstation under X.Org and Wayland while idling at the desktop . If you also consider that Wayland is a newer project, it has had less time to gather deprecated and bloated code, making it more agile and reactive than the aged X11 protocol. The reality is that it has been developed over a very long period, which still contains many legacy components within its code that make it very difficult to develop any further. X11 (version 11 of X Server) has been in use since 1987, so it is well past its expiration date. Modern GPUs support both, so one could use hardware isolation between VMs, and software isolation within a VM. There is currently no working draft to make it a standard. The application itself draws the window that it will run in, instead of like in the case of the X11 server that needed to relay this information back and forth between the application and the compositor. This is because the compositor is the display server: it allows for more efficient rendering and therefore better performance. AFAIR, a lot of OpenGL operations are preformed within the X server through the X OpenGL extensions. All tested Wayland compositors have achieved a slightly better frame rate than the X11 ones. For the benchmarks today was loading up a clean install of Ubuntu 21.04 with its Linux 5.11 kernel, GNOME Shell 3.38.4, and Mesa 21.0.1 while looking at the gaming performance between the X.Org and Wayland sessions. advantages of Wayland is that its faster That's a strange advantage to list. Wayland is trying to develop a new way of managing your graphical system and how you interact with it. Shared memory does open us up to easy cache attacks, but I can't think of any one can do based off of a framebuffer, especially since one does not generally draw directly onto it because of double buffering, IIRC. Wayland handles the clipboard differently from X11, so some programs might not copy and paste as expected. At the bottom level of the X client library stack are Xlib and XCB, two helper libraries (really sets of libraries) that . Wayland is also superior when it comes to security. I have read and understood the privacy policy, and am able to consent to it. small: Of course, these are just ideas, and I could be completely and utterly wrong. Commands, including shared memory setup and keyboard input, should be proxied through a client in the guivm and a stub compositor in the appvm. The basic concept behind the process model for Wayland is that it is the server and client combined, which means it communicates directly with the compositor. This means that we can simply attach GVT-g or comparable hardware graphics virtualuization to VMs without complex modifications to guid. On most systems, the difference is that wayland is tear-free by default and it's faster than tear-free X11. Re: Wayland alternatives to X11 commands. There is no right answer because both Wayland and X11 are great options with their own pluses and minuses that make them unique in different ways. The choice is yours. So I just updated Ubuntu to 21.04 on my RPi 4 (4GB) yesterday, and I'm shocked at how smooth and snappy it is now after the Wayland migration. An X11 sommelier instance provides X11 forwarding. This is a different entity than X11, which was created by the Open Group as an extension of XFree86s design. Wayland has two communication methods; Commands over a Unix socket, and shared memory buffers through a file descriptor with mmap. The API for 3 sounds (deceptively?) On Wed, Jun 16, 2021 at 08:34:59AM -0700, Demi Marie Obenour wrote: You can email the site owner to let them know you were blocked. It is lightweight, and it will not take up as many resources on your system as X11 would, although modern systems tend to handle X11 just fine. X11 has been around for a while, and is starting to show its age thanks to legacy code that bloats the system. Wayland is trying to develop a new way of managing your graphical system and how you interact with it. Even with the problems @jpouellet mentioned, I think that there still could be be some advantages. I'm having a hard time deciding whether to use X11 or Wayland for my KDE / Plasma session as I seek the best from both worlds. Simply put, Wayland is a display server protocol that seeks to replace X11. One major advantage of Wayland is that Wayland subsurfaces can be mapped by the GUIVM and composited on the GPU. If you are looking to experiment and try out something new, then Wayland is a great way to do just that. Remember the Golden Rule of Selling: Do not resort to violence.McGlashan. The problem is arbitrating access to it between VMs. 200.43.8.16 Here are some benchmarks of the NVIDIA 510 driver on the current state of Ubuntu 22.04 LTS. If you are running production systems or systems that rely on legacy applications, then X11 will be the better choice for you. Other approaches which somehow result in at least some kind of indirect hw acceleration like Virgil 3d (translate/emulate shader IL) is a graphics-analog of QEMU (in full instruction emulation mode no less! I'm having a hard time deciding whether to use X11 or Wayland for my KDE / Plasma session as I seek the best from both worlds. All other games work fine, tried several different video drivers in pairing with several different Proton drivers, just no luck. On twin-GPU systems, where one GPU is not connected to any display, we can give that GPU to a VM entirely, relying on the IOMMU to prevent access to GPU-internal registers and firmware. on a single user pc its mostly a "security circus" I disagree. I found this Wayland/X11 nested compositor from ChromiumOS: https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/platform2/+/HEAD/vm_tools/sommelier/. Wayland has the advantage of being visibly faster, to the point where you can see the mouse cursor and desktop effects working more smoothly. Screen lockers, like the rest of the compositor, are all part of the same window manager process. I'm waiting for this one to try out Cubes OS. At minimum, it would just be to have coloured decorations. It all boils down to what you want to do with your graphical system, what kind of environment you will be running your system in, and compatibility between your applications and Wayland. We use MIT-SHM extension Glitches with Wayland still are (Based on this week's test on Plasma 5.21.1): Horrible performance compared to X11; Very crashy, especially when hotplugging secondary display. CBT Nuggets uses cookies to give you the best experience on our website. Wayland allows one to attach multiple displays with different densities, which is important for people with HiDPI laptops who want to use external displays. This seems simple not more complicated than Xens own management of CPU memory, or a kernels management of mmapd buffers. That said, due to Wayland's forced vsync, gaming on it is utterly digusting. One of these is a part of the core X11 protocol, which is ancient, useless, and nobody uses. without copying inside gui-daemon. I can think of a few solutions: Do not expose the MMU to VMs attempts to modify the MMU from a VM are trapped and ignored. Lots of screen flickering, in fact, it's my new strobe light for inducing personal seizures. My phone has 320+dpi. Paravirtualization. The NVIDIA Wayland support with GBM usage has stabilized and appears to be in good shape for the upcoming Ubuntu 22.04 LTS release. They have a lot in common but also some key differences mainly in the way that the graphical data is relayed between application, window manager/compositor. The API for 3 sounds (deceptively?) One of the main reasons for X's complexity is that, over the years, its role has changed. Re: Wayland rendering performance on X11? Instead, it is a standard or specification that needs to be adopted by window managers and desktop e12/1nvironments. The action you just performed triggered the security solution. It has been in development for some time, which has left many people wondering if it will actually materialize as a viable alternative to X11. I hope it is true. We only need to handle rendering commands (nothing else makes sense for a VM to do). In the past we've looked at the Radeon Linux gaming performance for X.Org vs. Wayland. #archlinux #godofwarpc #linuxgamingPC SpecsSystem specsAMD 3900XT (PBO enabled) - No OC - governor was set to performance by Gamemode and CoreCTRLAMD Sapphir. All rendering in the guests happen in software, and IMO that's very unlikely to change unless GPUs get proper memory protection so e.g. I would be interested in working on this for Google Summer of Code if the Qubes project decides to join. Clarification: theoretically GuiVM may not have full control over input. Well, here it is. Performance & security by Cloudflare. As it stands currently, Wayland has support in the GNOME desktop environment and some other platforms such as KDEs KWin. https://spectrum-os.org/ is a project to build a compartmentalized OS on crosvm, nixos, and wayland, still early days but really exciting. In a majority of the native Linux games as well as Steam Play titles, the GNOME Wayland session with Ubuntu 21.04 . The performance in those other workloads was obviously unchanged but it was the overall RAM usage and power consumption we were most curious about: Over the course of all the benchmarks ran, using the GNOME Wayland session led to ~200MB higher RAM usage compared to the X.Org session. Just wanted to say hi. Was just complaining about the refresh-rate bug that keeps me from fully enjoying my transition to Gnome. An AMD Radeon RX 6800 XT graphics card was used for all the testing today with many of the games being tested at both 1080p and 4K. Registered users: acrux, Bing [Bot], claydoh, Daphazard, daret, dionatandiego, Google [Bot], Stephen Leibowitz, Powered by phpBB 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group. These actions include clicking on a checkbox, moving the windows, clicking a button, etc. Pro Better security Reduced use of root and isolating the input and output of every window. Of these, 3 and 4 seem the most promising to me. Plasma would just crash. I'm definitely in no position to make any promises about this project, but I look forward to seeing a proposal and your patches in general :). This cuts out any server type component that acts as a middleman, and lets the application communicate directly with the compositor that it wishes to render a window for. I believe this is highly unlikely to happen. On sway, swaylock is a completely separate program from the main compositor. settings (I think it's enabled by default). In the final analysis, you should try installing a fresh OSwith X11 and Wayland and then test it for yourself. The user-space start-up time was quicker with the Wayland-based GNOME 3.26 Shell session taking just 22.4 seconds compared to 25.3 seconds reported by systemd when using the GNOME Shell on X.Org. . Please include what you were doing when this page came up and the Cloudflare Ray ID found at the bottom of this page. https://spectrum-os.org/lists/hyperkitty/list/discuss@spectrum-os.org/thread/3VYGG3QLV37IJDQL3SZZMTOTJ5ZZKZFL/, There is now a bounty for this issue https://app.bountysource.com/issues/52352776-use-wayland-instead-of-x11-to-increase-performance, I found this Wayland/X11 nested compositor from ChromiumOS: X11 has been around for a while, and is starting to show its age thanks to legacy code that bloats the system. With Wayland graphics processing happens within the context of the application, and only a framebuffer is shared to the compositor. The security risk is just too high IMO. This is why it is possible to forward X11 sessions over SSH, giving you a secure remote session to a graphical desktop on a networked server or PC. Also, it seems that modern drivers already virtualize the GPU, with isolation enforced either in hardware or software. While I managed to tweak my desktop settings to prevent the base crashes, I'm now facing. This can be attributed to the simplified graphics stack in Wayland. Viewing 2 posts - 1 through 2 (of 2 total) . But at least for GNOME, there is big push to client-side decorations, so I'm not so sure about it. In this post, we will compare Wayland to X11, look at the advantages of each one, and learn more about window management in Linux. This means that we can simply attach GVT-g or comparable hardware graphics virtualuization to VMs without complex modifications to guid. This means that applications that wish to use Wayland need to give all of their display information to Wayland. I also break down what the differences are between them and my personal experiences with each.. I actually enjoy using it now. Wayland also removes X11's client-server concept (usually for the better), but you might find that remote desktops don't work the way you're used to. From what I understand, this is true in "standard" Wayland, but there is a wlroots protocol extension, "input inhibitor", that allows the screen locker to operate as a separate process. In simple terms, X Windows System and Wayland determine how your program's display will appear depending on your actions. You signed in with another tab or window. small: I believe this API already exists, it is called "DMA-BUF". A single X11 sommelier instance is typically shared across all X11 clients as they often expect that they can use a shared X server for communication. Seems like it can be used as X11 compositor as well, and can replace current qubes-gui and qubes-guid. I have had much the same question: is Wayland, which is more elegantly programmed and, when it works, faster, given that it has so many issues? Part of this legacy structure is the client/server model that it employs to render windows. It may also be possible to do this in X11 with proper proxying of MIT-SHM, It is my understanding that that is already how things are done. It can then be loaded at boot with the appropriate boot parameter. what has changed with the new ISOs is that plasma-wayland-session is installed now by default and that gives you the option to choose between Wayland and X11 on the logon screen (lower left corner)." This comment indicates that Wayland session has been removed for future ISO Did Manjaro KDE switched to Wayland? It pits Wayland vs Xorg but each has their place. Under X11, the global pixel counter is 15bits. Multiple X11 sommelier instances can be used for improved isolation or when per-client configuration is needed, but it will be at the cost of losing the ability for programs to use the X server for communication between each other. Xwayland is used to accomplish this. For more details, contact the Forum Administrators. X has two drawing APIs. for comparison though. This stability comes at a performance cost, however. Currently we only have one GuiVM (dom0) which must already be ultimately trusted and already has full access to everything anyway. https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/gui/#window-content-updates-implementation, https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-gui-agent-linux/blob/master/xf86-input-mfndev/src/qubes.c, https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-gui-agent-linux/blob/8c1238b/gui-agent/vmside.c#L261-L303, https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-gui-daemon/blob/94fd49d/gui-daemon/xside.c#L2274-L2363, Change default screen locker from XScreenSaver, http://phd.mupuf.org/files/fosdem2013_drinext_drm2.pdf, Make sharing a single window work with Jitsi in Firefox, https://spectrum-os.org/lists/hyperkitty/list/discuss@spectrum-os.org/thread/3VYGG3QLV37IJDQL3SZZMTOTJ5ZZKZFL/, https://app.bountysource.com/issues/52352776-use-wayland-instead-of-x11-to-increase-performance, https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/platform2/+/HEAD/vm_tools/sommelier/. 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